The Morgo Podcast: Sam Riley, CEO and co-founder of Ansarada

• Ansarada is an AI-powered virtual data room and material information platform.
• Used for M&A, fundraising, tenders and IPOs.

A founder's view of Ansarada's mission and product.

Hi, this is Jenny Morrell of the Morgo Podcasts, where we talk to people who are building tech or high-growth companies, going global from New Zealand and Australia out into the world.

Growing businesses is hard work.

Everyone has setbacks.

The entrepreneurs who grow these companies are a relentlessly positive group of people.

They're going to succeed no matter what.

They're risk-takers, they work crazy hours, they're obsessive, and much of the time, they're and every now and then there's a wonderful breakthrough.

Morgo is bringing you these stories to share with you the trials tribulations of being an entrepreneur.

Today's guest is Sam Riley who's building a business called Ansarata.

So Sam, tell us about Ansarata.

What does it do?

Well, hi Jenny.

Ansarata is a company that helps businesses and advisors with their most important outcomes in business such as raising capital or when they're selling.

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So we're a software company.

We're a SaaS company that helps them prepare all the right information for that, collaborate with the right people, get ready themselves for that event, and then execute due diligence.

So we help people get great outcomes when they're raising capital, selling, doing an audit, compliance, anything that requires great information and the people that run it to be in great shape.

That's what we help with.

data rooms that you can use for a lot of different purposes.

Is that a simple way to think of it?

I think so.

I think we've expanded a lot from that, but we originally built a virtual data room to help people in due diligence, particularly in environments that are like high risk and low trust, like where you're selling your company, but the best bidder is also your closest competitor and you have to disclose certain things to them, but you want to track and control it.

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That's like a virtual data room.

But how businesses prepare for those events and how they sort of run their information generally, we realised a big gap there and we built another product that's a pre-deal tool and post-deal.

It's more about always-on readiness and governance and compliance and doing things right because we found out through running 30,000 deals with our data rooms that businesses are usually in their best shape at the end of a deal.

The other thing is advisors kind of treat every deal like it's the first one ever in the sense that templates and software isn't really utilised to its maximum potential and there's a lot of inefficiency and waste and risk.

So seeing what happens at the end of the business's life cycle, that could be so much better if they understood this stuff earlier and they were exposed to it or at least aware of it.

said, oh, we have to build a tool that actually helps businesses way before their biggest outcomes get thrust upon them, you know.

I completely agree with that.

And you know I'm a fan of using this for boards when you think of all the times that, you know, you don't actually have the latest version of the customer contract or the employee contract or whatever else you're looking for.

I think having every company on this is a really good idea.

Thanks.

It means a lot coming from you.

So how did Ansarata start?

What was the motivation behind the company?

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Well, the name Ansarata is an anagram of the four founders.

So there's Andrew, myself, Sam, and Rachel and Daphne.

And Andrew's a Russian software engineer and was involved in building Hotel Club, which was an online hotel booking site built by a guy, Leon Kemenet.

Went on to build Menulog, and Leon built Menulog and sold that.

So Andrew's very, very talented with software development, very logical.

Rachel's my sister, but she, at the time, I met Andrew because during that sale process she was a transaction services accountant with KPMG and Daphne was the finance director there so the three of them during that sale needed a data room and Daphne thought the existing tools were expensive and Andrew thought he could build something better so that's what they did for that one sale of that business and then they thought they got good feedback from all the different , like the bankers, the lawyers, a couple of the company, you know, the CFO.

So they thought, oh, gee, we've got two accountants and a Russian software engineer.

We need someone with sort of entrepreneurs, strategy, sales, marketing.

So Rachel rang me up.

The four of us got together, sat down.

I had a look at what Andrew had built.

I understood the problem he was solving.

This was in 2005, which it wasn't called cloud then, but I think it was application service providers, which is the same thing.

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But I think the cool kids these days call it a side hustle, but no one left their job.

We never put a deck together and raised money.

The first thing we did was we just wrote a list of, well, who do you know that's a general counsel?

Who do you know that's a banker?

Who do you know that's a lawyer?

And who do you know that's a CFO, CEO?

Told them, listen, we're thinking about helping out with due diligence online.

Should we do that?

Is it a problem?

What's life like for you when you're and do these things and everyone said about how inefficient it was, how stressful it was, how long it goes, how expensive.

So we thought, gee, these are good space to play in.

So I wouldn't say it was a deliberate strategy but building, getting their requirements and then we'd design software, build it, go back and showcase it and they'd say, oh, look, we don't always need that feature on because some deals are like this so we have to have it on-off control.

Okay, no worries and come back.

, that listening to people, responding, showcasing, build enough trust that some of them said, well, we've got a deal coming up if you guys want to run it.

So we did and they were like small property transaction or something like that.

One of them actually was a company in a bit of strife and they were trying to recapitalise and they didn't and we never got paid because they went bankrupt.

That's not a good first customer.

Yeah, but ironically it was good because , I think it was KPMG were the advisors and they felt so sorry for us that we didn't get paid that they made up for us by throwing us the next 10 deals.

So that was more important.

That was really good.

So really in that first year when you all had other jobs, you were developing the product and you were developing the product in very close association with potential users who became your first customers.

Yeah, and a lot of them, and rightfully so, .

I left first because I'm the highest.

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Okay.

But then you were going to need to fund it.

Were you then able to fund it off those first customers?

Yeah.

We funded it.

First of all, we needed some money.

So the four of us passed the hat around and put in $30,000 collectively.

And that sort of, you know, got us a bit of a brand identity, some cards, you know, basics.

And then we got our first deal about nine months later.

And yeah, first year revenue, when we, after .

So a couple of years in, you know, there was about a team of five.

So tell me a little bit more about building the team.

You know, you can see what the market does.

You can sort of see what the product does.

How do you go about building the team?

I think building the team obviously never stops.

But back in the beginning, you know, we didn't really think we could be global or, you know, grow to where the level we're at now.

And it was more around like what's the immediate help that we need to, and keep growing or keep a head above water so at the start my philosophy was like how do I free myself up because I was just constrained so you know that was people that could handle you know customer inquiries and support a bit and I was doing mainly business development and then sort of continued with that philosophy but then when we're out in the market people wanted to trust us but in the early days we didn't have a lot of like testimonials and case studies and references .

So they'd look to security certifications.

So I remember distinctly having the choice of, gee, you know, we really need to spend on marketing and sales, but we probably should invest in, like, getting ISO 27001 certified or getting an industry best practice that people will recognise, because that's becoming a bottleneck and we're losing because people want to rely on something like that.

So I remember investing in hiring someone, to work with us and become like a compliance officer, which is a weird role when you've got six people.

But it actually did help us grow and scale.

And looking back, it was very, very good that we put in that level of rigour around security and compliance because it became part of the culture now.

And, you know, it's just embedded in everything here as an organisational cultural attribute.

So you took a risk then of prioritising .

Yeah, I did.

But I would say that it was, whilst that sounds more smarter strategically, I think back then I saw it as a sales and marketing tool as well.

Right.

Because I'm like, you know, people are asking for these, they don't have time to do their own audit on us or the money to, you know, they need to rely on something that's third party inspected and you figure out, well, which ones would they be?

And I'm like, oh, , actually, we should do this anyway, eventually, and it's probably going to help accelerate the sales cycle.

So in hindsight, it proved far more valuable for its cultural influence.

So that was that.

So I think scaling the team never stopped, but the one thing I've centred on is when you're a product company, the product is the thing.

You can optimise sales and marketing all you want, but if your product's not as fast as it should be, a bit too clunky or complex, or you're not able to respond to feedback or you're not able to innovate, you know, out-innovate your competitors, then, you know, that's just no good.

So we really, you know, in five, six years in, we started to double down on product, particularly starting with great design, product management, engineers, and the whole culture around that.

And the team we have is just phenomenal.

So that's the core for me in a SaaS company is, is your product team.

And that makes everyone else's job easier and better and more fun in the go-to-market functions as well.

Because if people love your product, it's going to be a lot easier to sell.

Yeah.

And, you know, our service and customer success team, yeah, they help customers with problems and issues, but they're not dealing with repetitive bugs and issues that no one solved for three years.

They're more helping customers be successful with their outcomes, which is more rewarding.

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How many people do you have now?

Around 170.

And what I find challenging beyond the number is that those 170 are split across four countries or five sort of.

You've got a couple of people on the ground in different territories.

But operating out of London, Chicago and Sydney as our main hubs, you know, three different cultures, three different time zones.

And we've been operating overseas for 10 years.

when you do scale, but you also scale simultaneously in three separate regions, you know, it just triplicates the challenge that usually goes with the numbers.

Right.

And how have you funded this expansion, you know, to get from your starting team to 70 people now?

So, yeah, self-funded all the way, but I remember in the lobby of our old office building and one of our clients, very, very good client, he said, , you guys should be over in New York and London.

And I said, yeah, we're saving up for that.

And he said, well, look, what if I pass the hat around to some mates and we wanted to fund you?

So we took an investment around 2008.

We got $1.

8 million from about 15 people that put in $100K each in a syndicate.

And they were really good because they opened up doors into different networks they had.

About five years later, we bought most of them, back with our own funds and then we kept growing the business but then we had that epiphany a few years ago that we really got to go beyond data rooms and we got to unlock the power in our data and you know all the other things we established and built and do more and help more people and we wanted to do that in a big way and accelerate it so we went out and sort of worked backwards from what we wanted to do in three years which is around about now we wanted we said well look we really .

And what are your plans now?

What's next?

What's next is we want every business in the world to be confident in their most critical decisions.

And I think the decisions business needs to make, it's very hard to be confident in them if they're not aware of what they have in terms of information and its quantity and quality and the impact it can have on them and what's missing or what you should have or what great looks like.

in due diligence, particularly when you're selling.

But our mission is that process is stressful, lengthy and expensive.

We want to use tech to make that insight and awareness a state and always on state for business.

So it's automated and it's not expensive.

It's quick.

It's not stressful.

It's always on.

So yeah, delivering that to the world's what's next.

That's great.

So what's been the biggest challenge along the way?

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I'm probably growing myself personally.

So skills-wise, you know, I'm just a voracious reader and I'll absorb any topic and I'm, you know, very, very curious, curious around anything.

And if we don't know something, I'll try and get the best person in the world here to help us out or consult or do something.

So not necessarily that, but more personal growth, dealing with criticism, you know, when things happen.

things don't work out or people you trusted let you down some of those things you know probably the personal growth in how to move beyond those things and not let them affect who you are fundamentally and to keep doing the thing that made you great and we all have unique skills and attributes but that's your greatness and you've got to live it out but sometimes it's easy to you know when things are tough and like all the experiences I just said you can you can find yourself where years ago you used to be very confident.

So the personal growth and dealing with challenges.

Right.

And this may be the same answer but maybe it's slightly different.

What surprised you in your journey?

What has surprised you about building a business?

What surprised me is like when it's do or die, like when something has to happen, it's amazing what you can do and what you can get done regardless of the resources.

I was bankrupt when my sister rang me up and I had a two-year-old daughter and a year later I said to my wife, I said, oh, look, we've really got to give this a go but if it doesn't work out, you know, we'll be living out of the car or something.

But because I was in that situation, like it had to work, you know, the level of effort and energy and things you do make it work.

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And the other flip side of that is when you get to the size we are now and you have, you know, great office, more resources than ever, some of the best clients in the world, loads of green space to go and conquer all the opportunity.

It surprises me how it's quite rare for individuals to go after it if they don't have to.

Like the sense of urgency needs to be there.

me, you can have everything in place in your business and everything great, but if there's not a real hunger and sense of urgency in each person, you're never going to reach your potential.

I always thought if opportunity was available and resources were available that people would go for it, but I've been surprised that's usually not the case.

Interesting.

What do you wish you'd known earlier?

Is it that about motivating people?

I could talk for half an hour on all the things I wish I'd known earlier around how really to scale a team.

I wish I'd known around be careful what problems you pick to solve because you don't want to pick too small of a problem because you end up actually figuring everything out and you end up achieving everything you set out to do.

And I think some of the things we're taking on now, I just wish we set those goals for ourselves earlier.

I wish we had loftier, goals, you know, because, you know, you end up achieving whatever you set.

So don't limit yourself.

Don't think small and think big.

Think bigger.

Great.

And you already mentioned that this is also a journey of personal growth as you're building a company.

And so what have you learned is your key strength?

Well, one thing I've learned is an overused strength is a blind spot.

Oh, okay.

, you know, my key strengths are only strengths if I'm not, you know, overusing them or I'm aware where they are getting overused.

So that's important.

But my key strengths is like I'm obviously very visionary.

You know, I just have tremendous belief that you can figure out a way to make something happen.

If there's a problem, you know, what about this?

What about that?

Have we tried this?

Have we tried that?

So, you know, tenacious, you know, quite resolute around, and confident in people and potential of figuring things out.

That's a big strength of mine and quite adventurous and willing to take on risk.

But you can imagine if you're willing to take on risk as an entrepreneur, if you overuse that, it can get you in a lot of trouble.

Right.

So that was my next question.

What about weaknesses you've had to learn to compensate for?

Yeah, well, that would be one.

I've been quite fortunate actually with Andrew and Rachel as co-founders .

You know, Rachel's got strengths where I have weaknesses and so does Andrew.

But we each actually know enough about each other's area of the business to have respect and admiration for what we're collectively doing.

So it's not like we're totally, you know, unable to relate.

We relate.

But building the business with them sort of allowed any weaknesses I have to be covered up.

And my coach said a great thing about teams.

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He said, look, you know, the goal of any team should be that every strength on the team is maximized and every weakness is made irrelevant.

Right.

Because individual weaknesses shouldn't exist.

So another one I'd give you, Jenny, is like I'm obviously decisive, I can make quick decisions.

But if that's used in the wrong context, sometimes I can make assumptions about people and situations too quickly without getting confirming evidence.

Right.

So like stuff like that, it's like, you know, it is good, , if you use it the wrong way, it's obviously not good.

And you mentioned before that you're a voracious reader.

Yeah.

Do you have anything in particular that you read or listen to that you would recommend to an entrepreneur setting out?

Well, besides the Morgo podcast, of course.

Thank you for that, Sam.

You know, I think an entrepreneur setting out, I don't think it's the best written book and, you know, I think it's been rewritten in a real simple way with the Lean Startup, but the book I'm referring to that started all that and still is Four Steps to the Epiphany by Steve Blank.

I think that had a big impact on me.

The Momentum Effect, you know, I really love that book.

John Cotter's got some great books on change and I spoke about Sense of Urgency which he says without a sense of urgency, there's eight steps to change, that's the first one.

It's so important he actually wrote a book called Sense of Urgency and that's great.

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As I went further on the journey, I think reading about other and listening on podcasts to other entrepreneurs' struggles and challenges and how they overcame them made me feel like it's quite a lonely job as a CEO and entrepreneur.

But when you listen to other people's stories or you actually go to Morgo conference, you realise that other people are going through this and you're not alone there and you've got sort of a community or people that you can talk to that will understand you.

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So the book, The Hard Thing About Hard Things, that was another, you know, really impactful book.

But the best ones are all on leadership, to be honest.

Turn the Ship Around, David Marquette, about, like, servant-based leadership culture.

John Maxwell's 360 Leader, Developing the Leader Within.

You know, John Maxwell says everything rises and falls with leadership and leadership's influence, nothing more, nothing less.

And those two things I've found in business are so true.

Whatever the leader's lid is, that's going to be the cap on the cap.

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So investing in leadership is something I wish I knew earlier too and I wish I did that earlier with everyone.

So next, how do you deal with the moments when everything looks really bleak, when everything turns to custard, it's a meltdown?

How do you cope?

What's your coping strategy?

Well, the first thing I try to have in the culture to avoid that in big ways is transparency because I believe like if everything's transparent, yeah, bad things happen but , you'll, you'll find out about them when they're small and you'll find out about the thing that happened yesterday.

But so transparency, I try to have to avoid like catastrophic bad news.

It's big, it's been happening, but it's been covered up and you find out about it, but it's too late to really fix it and it's too big.

So I try to avoid that.

But nonetheless, though, you do it, you know, recently we went through some very, very trying times.

And , you know, one is the good side of it.

It forces you to go back to first principles and simplicity and it actually forces you to get very, very focused and prioritise on what is the most important thing to do now to resolve the situation.

and encouragement and encouragement and, you know, sort of cheer you on as you're dealing with something very dark.

And I think the other one I've learned is regardless of the situation is, you know, to never compromise your values.

So, you know, stay true to your values that got you where you are and don't compromise them despite the situation.

And finally, what advice would you like to give to somebody setting out in business?

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I would learn from the best and sort of it's so good to start a business these days because there's so many, you know, models and tools and processes or, you know, tactics and methods that you can start with from day one that are almost free and highly scalable.

So I would get a very clear idea about how you're going to build the business it, but more important than that, I'll just be really sure that you're actually passionate about what the problem you're setting out to solve and you're pretty clear about the value it's going to deliver to another human and if that value is good enough and there's enough people that would recognise the value you're going to bring to them by the problem you're solving or the thing you're introducing, unless you're super passionate about it and unless it's really going to deliver value to people, I wouldn't even .

I think that's the fundamental thing.

You're going to go through all these challenges and unless the core principle around why you are doing what you're doing is strong, it won't be enough to pull you through the challenges.

That's fantastic.

Sam, thank you very much.

One of these tech or high growth companies yourself from Australia, New Zealand, into the world, we'd love to see you at our annual retreats.